On the afternoon of October17, 2024, Ambassador Zhao Weiping held a press conference attended by representatives from 9 media houses of Namibia at the Chinese Embassy. The transcript of the press conference is as follows.

Amb. Zhao:

Welcome our media friends. I’m happy to see quite a few new faces today. This is my 4th meeting with media friends since I came to Namibia as Chinese Ambassador in January last year. My plan is to have two regular meetings per year. In June, I had the first press meeting, so this is the second one this year. I think it’s very important to keep in close touch with our media friends. I want to thank all of you for your taking time to be present here.

Today I will talk about mainly three subjects. I will talk about China’s domestic economy, 2024 Summit of the Forum on China-Africa Cooperation (FOCAC) and China-Namibia relations. And of course, I will answer any question you may have regarding these topics or other issues of your interest.

Before I touch on China’s economy, I will give you a briefing on the third plenary session of the 20th Central Committee of the Communist Party of China, which was held in July 2024. I believe it will help you understand the trajectory of Chinese Government’s policies.

The theme of the Plenary Meeting is “further deepening reform comprehensively to advance Chinese modernization”, and a resolution was adopted in this regard, which put forth over 300 major reform measures aiming at providing a systematic plan for further deepening reforms in China and outlining a new grand blueprint for Chinese modernization.

These measures cover all aspects of advancing Chinese modernization in the fields of economy, politics, culture and society, and will have to be accomplished by the 80th anniversary of the founding of the People’s Republic of China in 2029.

With this general picture in mind, we will have a better understanding of the historical period China is now standing in its development and the economic tasks it is facing. In terms of economic development, our overall objective is to build a high-standard socialist market economy. We will see that the market plays the decisive role in resource allocation and that the government better fulfills its role. We will uphold and improve China’s basic socialist economic systems, achieve greater self-reliance and strength in science and technology, and promote high-standard opening up. We will build a modernized economy, move faster to create a new pattern of development and promote high-quality development.

So as this Plenary Meeting of the Party has again indicated when we talk about China’s economy, it’s very important to bear in mind the unique role and strong capability of the Chinese Government in macroeconomic management. Facing an uncertain, complex and severe external environment, the Chinese Government has stepped up its efforts of maintaining relatively rapid economic growth while ensuring the quality of the development.

Recently, the Political Bureau of the CPC Central Committee made a very important decision on promoting the development of China’s economy with a series of critical new measures being adopted. We believe that the fundamentals of China’s economy and favorable conditions such as a vast market, strong economic resilience and great potential remain unchanged. And we are determined to achieve the economic target set for this year. Why I talk so much about China’s economy, because I noticed that in the local media here, you are also interested in China’s economy and you have heard a lot of comments about the status of China’s economy by western observers.

The most important event in China-Africa and China-Namibia relations this year was the 2024 Beijing Summit of the FOCAC. This summit has sent out a clear message that China and African countries are ready to forge an even closer partnership in achieving modernization together and China is determined to provide strong support to Africa in this regard.

As you know, President Xi Jinping of China has announced ten partnership actions for modernization with Africa, which will be implemented with about 50 billion US dollars of financial support to be provided by China through the next three years. This breaks down into about 30 billion US dollars of credit line, about 12 billion US dollars of assistance in various forms, and at least 10 billion US dollars of investment in Africa by Chinese companies. In addition, China will encourage and support Africa in issuing panda bonds in China.

All the ten partnership actions announced by Chinese President are all relevant to Namibia. We welcome Namibia to participate in all these partnerships, and we will certainly include Namibia in all the actions we will take so that Namibia will enjoy the benefits.

During the summit, President Xi and President Mbumba held a very successful bilateral meeting, having reached important consensus on further pushing forward China-Namibia Comprehensive Strategic Cooperative Partnership. As the outcome of this meeting, China announced to provide Namibia additional food assistance worth of 50 million Namibian dollars, which made China’s total pledge increasing to 75 million Namibian dollars. China also decided to provide Namibia new economic assistance of 500 million Namibian dollars and committed itself to implementing the police housing project which will cost more than 900 million Namibian dollars. In addition, China agreed to import Namibian lamb meat.

Looking to the future, I am very confident in the even greater development of China-Namibia relations. I believe we will continue to strengthen mutual trust, maintain frequent exchange of visits between our leaders and government officials at all levels and work together on the international and regional issues of our common interest. In particular, we will see big expansion in our practical cooperation, which will take place in extensive sectors such as agriculture, infrastructure, education, information technology, mineral resources and new energy. And of course China-Namibia friendship will continue to grow as our bilateral cooperation expands. I want to stop here as my opening remarks and now I wish to take any questions you may have regarding what I said and on any issue that you are interested in. Thank you.

Q: Thank you very much Ambassador. I really appreciate the information and the invitation. My name is Augetto Graig, and I’m a journalist from Republikein, which is part of the NMH group that includes Namibian Sun. Just in my personal capacity I want to say thank you very much I had the privilege of attending the 2024 Belt and Road Journalists Forum quite recently, on the invitation of the All-China Journalists Association, and your Embassy was very helpful in securing a VISA. And it was a very eye-opening experience, very pleasant. 

I would like to ask you to elaborate on the cooperation that is possible between Namibia and China in terms of critical metals and minerals, sometimes called battery minerals, including lithium and copper and others which are present in Namibia. And specifically I want to know if China would be willing to help Namibia to develop industries beyond extraction of these critical minerals. Whether it might be possible on whatever scale that one day the batteries and the final products might be produced within Namibia borders, or whether all of our minerals will always have to be exported. 

I'd also like to know whether China would be willing to help Namibia in terms of addressing the energy and electricity deficit that we face not only in Namibia but in southern Africa and in Africa a whole. You did mention new energy and Namibia has expressed its ambition in terms of renewable energy and green hydrogen. But also most recently some of our leaders have spoken very favorably for the first time about the possibility of nuclear energy. I'd like to know how possible it might be to look at a small modular reactors or some kind of nuclear power for Namibia which suits our particular size and might help us to take advantage of the uranium which already we are sharing and you are helping us with. Thank you very much.

A: Thank you. I’m indeed deeply impressed through your question by your very rich knowledge in the sectors of mineral resources and energy. I think you have touched very important points, regarding Namibia’s development in those important areas as you mentioned. I’m also very glad to hear that you participated in the Belt and Road media program recently held in China, and I do wish that more of our media friends will have the opportunities to join various programs in the media exchange and cooperation between China and Namibia. 

I think of course Namibia is rich in natural resources, including mineral and other resources. For example, you have very rich solar and wind power resources. As Chinese Ambassador here, I fully understand your desire for industrialization. Namibia should not only be an exporter of raw materials. Your raw materials should benefit your people more and also your materials should be used for the purpose of your industrialization. I fully understand that. One of the policies China has made is to help African countries with its industrialization program, as announced by Chinese President Xi, when he held dialogue with African leaders last August in South Africa on the sidelines of BRICS summit. This pledge by China to support African countries’ industrialization was also reiterated in President Xi's keynote speech at the FOCAC Summit in early September this year as I mentioned. One of the ten partnership actions he announced is related with support for African industrialization.

In Namibia’s case, now China does have some major projects in the area of mineral resources, in particular the uranium. As you know we have two investment projects here in Namibia in uranium. One is the Swakop Uranium, that's Husab mine and the other is Rossing Mine, you are familiar with that very much. And the investment of Swakop Uranium amounts to 5.1 billion US dollars. So that’s still the largest single Chinese investment in Africa and we are very proud of that. Uranium is a very special mineral resource, in terms of processing and transportation. So far as I know, I think you may also be aware that initial processing is already done before its export to other countries, mainly to China. Because the uranium has to be initially processed before it can be transported to other countries. So I think a kind of processing already has taken place in terms of our uranium mines here.

There's another Chinese company, Xinfeng. They established a processing plant this year in response to the call of Namibian government, or to meet the requirement of the Namibian government. Because you have already listed lithium as one of the mineral resources you will not export as the raw materials. So they have already established a processing plant. That's another example. I think the Chinese companies will adjust their mode of cooperation with Namibia in the areas of mineral resources according to the requirements of your government. So they are doing business in line with the legal requirements and also in line with the policy of the government. 

You mentioned new energy, green hydrogen, and nuclear energy. We believe green hydrogen is a very important project to Namibia. We do believe it's a feasible program, because you enjoy rich wind and solar power. Of course currently your cooperation with European companies has made significant progress. Chinese companies are also watching the developments with great interest. There's one major Chinese company that has a very strong interest in participating in your green hydrogen program. In terms of green hydrogen program, Chinese companies are very open-minded. If the opportunity arises, they will cooperate with other partners, like the European companies. 

Regarding nuclear energy, China has an ambitious program and is still carrying out plans to build more nuclear power plants within China to meet the growing domestic demand for energy and electricity. This is especially because China has been very active in addressing the need to combat climate change. And we have made our plan to reach “peak carbon” emission by 2030 and realize “carbon neutral” by 2060. That means we will reduce the traditional energy like coal in our national energy mix, and we will continue to raise the percentage of renewable energy and new energy in our national energy mix. As I mentioned, you may be aware that China is one of the very few countries in the world which has the technology and also the relevant resources in terms of developing nuclear power plants. For Namibia to develop its own nuclear power industry, I think China will be certainly one of your very good potential partners. Thank you.

Q: Good evening Mr. Ambassador. I’m Linea from Namibia Press Agency. I’d like to ask what the current trade volume between China and Namibia is. And apart from the uranium in the mineral resources sector, what other commodities are the two countries trading?

A: Our bilateral trade volume for last year was 1.3 billion US dollars. According to our statistics, by August this year, our bilateral trade volume was 1.1 billion US dollars. As you rightly pointed out, so far I think Uranium accounts for most part of our bilateral trade. I think China is no doubt a very large consumer market in the world, actually ours is the second largest consumer market. I think we need to import a lot of products from other countries. For our trade with Africa, as you may have notice that in the ten partnership actions announced by President Xi, one is about trade prosperity. In that partnership action, President Xi made it very clear that China wish to import more from Africa, especially we will provide our African friends more market access to China, especially your agricultural products. You know we have already imported Namibia beef, and at the FOCAC Summit in September, during President Xi's meeting with President Mbumba, we have announced to agree to import Namibia lamb. And there are other products we are currently continuing our discussion with our Namibian friends. That's about importing Namibia’s red crab, grape and also other aquatic products. As I mentioned before, there are no political obstacles to importing these products from Namibia. It's only technical issues involved，as long as our relevant government agencies solve those technical issues. We have to go through certain procedure to make the import meet relevant quarantine requirements. So it's very likely that we can reach an agreement on those issues as well in future. There's no doubt at all that we have all the willingness and readiness to import more from Namibia. And I think we have a very big potential in our bilateral trade as I said because China is such a big consumer market.

Q: The first question is the economic growth of the entire Global South which China and Russia are at the peak as far as the BRICS is concerned, and how is China able to debunk certain theories? Because a few years ago, Japan and France raised concerns, trying to warn African countries to refrain from taking Chinese loans, because according to them they (the loans) come with some strings attached. So how is China able to debunk that theory and make Africans think that they are not getting into another neocolonialism trap. That's question number one. Question number two is on the 22 of February in 2022, if I am not mistaken, when Russia went into what they called special military operation in Ukraine, a few days after that, China and Russia declared that their friendship were at the highest peak. Now, how does the friendship of China and Russia improve the economy of the Global South? The third question which is the last, the trade war between China and the United States is unpredictable, and the United States has several times threatened to block China or Chinese companies from accessing very important components in manufacturing that are called the semiconductors. Now with China being at the peak of the BRICS which is seen as a big hope economically of the Global South and many countries are making applications to join the club, what can China do to fill the gap if the United States move ahead a pressing button and limit China’s access to important semiconductors? And it seems that the West and Europe and the United States for centuries have played a role in monopolizing access to these very important components, so what is China thinking in terms of solving that problem? Maybe one quick, last one, SWIFT, the Russians were removed from SWIFT by sanctions, and there is a system which is in place between China and Russia where they are doing the financial transactions. Is this a new world order in terms of financial technology? And how does China intend to improve this, so that you know people are able to have the ability to relieve in terms of sanction storms from the West? Those are my questions, thank you.

A: Thank you, I appreciate those very important questions, and I also admire your rich knowledge in the international relations, and your questions are really thought- provoking and help me think on those important questions. Unfortunately today's world is still full of problems and tragic wars are taking place in some parts of the world. These wars are not only causing tragic human casualty, but also bringing very serious impacts on the global economy. Also in today's world, geopolitical factor has once again become a very outstanding issue and that’s very unfortunate. So, like Namibia and all African countries, we all advocate for multilateralism, and for a fair and just international order.

You asked four questions. The first is about the economy of Global South and also China’s economic relations with other countries, and especially you mentioned the loan issue. I think one thing we have to be clear. Actually I have made response before and I wish to reiterate it that China belongs to the Global South. China is still a developing country in spite of its rapid economic development, in spite of the fact that it has already become the world's second-largest economy. We may, in the future, as our economic strength continues to grow, pass the threshold required to become a developed country in terms of per capita GDP, but politically we will stand with our friends in the developing world forever. So in our economic cooperation with developing countries, we always view it as part of South-South cooperation. So that means, for any kind of economic cooperation it will be mutually beneficial to us. But I think China's economic cooperation with our friends in Africa means more than that. So we are very sensitive and we have always respected the interests of our African friends in our economic cooperation, so there's no such issue as the so-called China neocolonialism. This is a label some Western countries want to impose on China, but that's not true.

Regarding the loans, for every country, especially for developing countries, because of the lack of their own financial capability, it's only natural for them to borrow from other countries or from international financial institutions in order to develop themselves. It was the same thing China has done in the early years of China's reform and opening up in the 1980s. In Africa's case, we did provide significant loans to some countries. One thing I think we have to be very clear is that we will not force any country to borrow from us. Once our African countries friends want to borrow from China, of course we always do our best. And the loans provided by China are soft loans and are on more favorable terms to the recipient countries. Those loans are proposed by the recipient countries. They initiated it. After careful study, we make the decision to provide loans. I think these loans have benefited the recipient countries. Of course we have seen that in some countries they have a very high debt level, and they have the problem of repaying. The Western countries want to blame China for the cause of the debt problems in some of the African countries, but if we take an objective view at this problem, actually the debt those countries owed to China is a small percentage of the total. If you look at the debt situation in some countries, actually they borrow more from the West and international organizations. Of course for those countries which have difficulties in repaying, I understand there are some discussions between countries in debt and loan-providing countries, including China. For China, we always handle this issue through friendly discussions with relevant countries. The purpose is not to use the debt issue as a leverage to seek some special favors or to force the country to repay regardless of whether it will cause even more economic difficulties for the country. We’re trying to avoid that. We have no intention at all to just take back our money and don't care at all the economic reality in those countries.

In Namibia’s case, I want to tell you that you have not borrowed anything from China for at least seven or eight years or maybe at least ten years. I think the Namibian Government is very sensitive to your debt level, and I am glad to notice that recently your debt level even further lowered to just more than fifty percent. So you are very safe.

The second question, if I understand correctly, you mentioned that whether China and Russia, as relatively big economies of the BRICS, should play a more important role in improving the Global South economy. As I said, for China, we have always believed that it's very important to boost the position of the Global South on international stage either economically or politically, because as members of Global South, although our political system may be different and our national conditions of course are different, I think we share many common languages. So in international engagement, either regarding the reform of financial systems or of other international economic institutions, I think the Global South have to stand together as a whole. We, of course, hope the establishment of BRICS serves that purpose to strengthen the solidarity of the Global South and to boost our position to help and support each other on important international issues.

The China-US trade war, of course, was not started by China. We didn't want such a war and we still don't want such a war. But very unfortunately, because some country believed in the so-called competition and started the competition game that we do believe eventually will not benefit any country, including the country which started such war against China. Actually, China and the USA, as the second and the largest economies in the world, have a lot to cooperate in terms of economic cooperation. Both countries have a lot to do to forge partnerships to benefit each other. We always believe China and the US economies are very highly complementary. We had a successful story in the past. But in the current situation as we have seen, the US has stepped up such a trade war, and it has no intention of diminishing rather than stepping up. So we have to face such a challenge imposed on us by some countries. Not only the USA, we have also seen some other countries follow the bad example of the USA. But China is the second largest economy and the second largest consumer market with such a hardworking population. Although we are facing growing challenges in this regard, we are confident in China’s further development. I think we have a unique asset, that's our political system. I think for every country, they should choose a political system suitable to their national conditions.

According to our experience, we believe that our political system, which suits China's reality, works very well for China. As I mentioned recently, when dealing with challenges—both economic challenges from the outside and from domestic economic structure adjustments—the Chinese government has introduced a series of critical measures to boost Chinese economy. These include fiscal policy measures, monetary policy measures, and even administrative policy measures. After more than forty years of rapid development, I think we have accumulated quite rich financial resources, and our Government still has many tools at its disposal, so we are very confident in overcoming all difficulties.

You mentioned that Russia was removed from SWIFT. So, I think in today's world, there are many countries that do not believe the dominance of the US dollar serves their interests. That's why there is a very strong call from the Global South to reform the international financial system. China also shares the same sentiment as our friends in the Global South. I think it's a complicate issue. Firstly, I believe that all countries in the Global South should do our best to strengthen ourselves economically and financially. I do believe that there will be a time when we see a fairer and just global financial order. Thank you.

Q: Good evening, Ambassador. My name is Renthia Kaimbi, representing the Confidente, as well as my colleague over there. I am also a beneficiary of the Belt and Road Initiative, because I attended the seminar on business back in 2017. And my observations in China were that, I visited Fujian ... (Ambassador: Fujian? Coastal province) Yes, as well as Dehua County. (Ambassador: That’s also in Fujian?) Yes, it was close. I visited Xiamen City as well as Dalian. I think Dalian was the one with Russian influences, if I remember correctly. And my observation was that your informal sector is quite structured and very organized in the same way of tourism sites. Dehua County for example is the county fully focused on porcelain and ceramics, also having a university. And my first question to you would be what the Chinese government is doing to support the Namibian informal sectors in a way that ... (Ambassador: Informal sectors? Sorry, could you explain? It sounds like a new term for me.) Informal sectors sell products of sewing and crafts. What the Chinese government is doing to support the informal sector in Namibia? Because your informal sectors in China are very structured. In China, some cities and counties, as well as universities are focused on the informal sector as well. And secondly what is the Embassy here doing to encourage local Chinese business people to adhere to labor standards and regulations? And what is the Embassy’s intention to support the agricultural sector for Namibia? Thank you.

A: Thank you for your question, and I am glad you had the opportunity to visit China recently. I think the informal sectors you mentioned are very important for improving the welfare of the people here. It's not possible for all of us to become information technology elites or work in the financial sector. For common households and ordinary people, sectors like crafts making, clothing production or agriculture are very important. I am impressed that some of your national leaders also emphasize the importance of developing these sectors. For example, the Vice President attaches great importance to the development of agriculture. In these areas, I think China and Namibia can cooperate.

For instance, last year we had a bilateral training program in the area of cultural heritage. When I talk about cultural heritage, I mean not only famous cultural heritage sites but also so-called traditional craftsmanship. In China, the Government also attaches importance to this. We encourage local people, especially the rural population, to develop crafts related to traditional culture. For example, in China, have you seen some people flying kites? This can also become a kite-making industry, something like that.

Last year, we sent a group of trainers to Namibia for three weeks. We cooperated with the Ministry of Education, Arts and Culture, and all the trainees felt they learned a lot from it. Such training programs really help our Namibian friends develop their own traditional crafts. They proposed sending a group of trainees to China next year to continue this kind of training. They also proposed signing an MOU to establish a mechanism for exchanges in this area. So, every year we provide about three hundred training opportunities for Namibian people, and I think we can increase programs like this in the future.

Regarding agriculture, as I have already made public, there are currently eight Chinese agricultural experts in Namibia as a partnership project between the Chinese Government and FAO. They will stay here for two years, and there will be additional experts coming for six months, so this program is also being implemented. Together with your Ministry of Agriculture, they will provide training services for the Namibian farming community. In agriculture, I think we can do more, and there are many things we can do. For example, your Government has proposed using Chinese government grants to implement a borehole drilling program. This is a very comprehensive undertaking, and such proposals are all under consideration.

Regarding Chinese companies' adherence to your labor standards, the Chinese Embassy always encourages our nationals and companies here to abide by Namibian laws. This is the same for foreign nationals and companies when they are in China. They should also abide by Chinese laws and regulations. So, it's only natural that all Chinese nationals and companies here should abide by your laws and be very sensitive to the interests and rights of the local labor they employ.

I have been here for almost two years, and I think in the last two years, it comforts me a little because I haven't seen too many reports of negative incidents. I think the majority of the Chinese nationals very sensitive in abiding by your laws. Especially large companies like Swakop Uranium and Rossing Uranium have sophisticated, well-established internal practices to ensure all their operations are in line with your regulations. They also have strong union organizations, so we have not heard any negative news about those companies in terms of complying with your legal standards.

But maybe for some small business owners and some companies that are not very small but are new here, they may need some time to become familiar with the requirements, and enhance their sense of community. The Embassy regularly has dialogues with our Chinese community here, and we always remind our nationals to respect the local culture and the Namibian people. Thank you.

Q: Mr. Ambassador, you mentioned Namibia did not borrow money from China. (Ambassador: For about ten years.) I would like to find out how much has Namibia borrowed in the past prior to the ten years and whether Namibia has paid those soft loans.

A: I think Namibia in the past borrowed a very small amount of money from China. Of course I should not say small amount. I think it's also about more than a billion Namibian dollars. If you want me to give you accurate number, I have to check. And maybe I can provide later if I can find this number because it's already long time ago. You borrowed some soft loans from China. I think Namibia has a very good record in honoring payback.

Q：Thank you, Ambassador. My name is Mary Mutonga from Namibia Daily News. With the Chinese economy growing so rapidly and the strong relations between China and Namibia, given the recent predicament in imports from China, particularly the small businesses affected by high customs rates in Namibia, what measures are being considered to make imports more accessible and affordable? How can the trade relations between China and Namibia be improved to ensure that even local small and medium-sized businesses can benefit from these relations despite the current challenges?

A: I think trade and economic cooperation are actually very complicated issues. If a country is open to outsiders, if it's not a closed economy, so long as there are foreign investors or foreign businesses present in your country, some local businesses or industries will feel certain pressure because you have more competitors. For some local businesses here, they do welcome more foreign business people here so that they will have more business partners. But for some business people here, maybe they will feel the negative impacts. So I think this should be applied to all foreign business people here, not just Chinese companies. Certainly there will be some local people who find it not easy to continue their business because of the presence of foreign business people. So that's the first point I want to mention.

And the other thing is why our media people are so interested in the Chinese small business people here. Because they are mainly doing wholesale or retail business in small commodities which are daily necessities. And some of your people who don't have enough money to start big business also have to rely on small business like small shops. So it's very natural, especially in those remote areas. For example, in the village, originally there was only one shop owned by the local people. And suddenly, in the nearby villages or the nearby cities or towns, a Chinese businessman opens a big shop. And certainly that will affect the business of our Namibian friends. But it's a very complicated issue. What the Namibian friends should agree is that since the Chinese business people came to Namibia, they did help lower the prices of the commodities here. So I think, especially for low-income families, that are also important for them. So it's a very complicated issue. Low-income families have benefited from the low prices brought by Chinese business people. But in the meantime, for some small local business owners, they did feel the impact. So for these issues, how to solve them? I think it's very difficult. For the Chinese small business owners, as I said, we are in regular dialogues with the Chinese community here. What the Embassy can do is that we just hope that they can be more sensitive to the interests of the local business people. And I think some of them have established partnerships. Some of those local small shop owners also buy from the Chinese business and they sell in their villages or other areas. Thank you.

Q: Good evening, colleagues, Ambassador. I'm Mawenga Kongyashidi. I'm representing Namibia Today. So Ambassador, I have a question on desertification and research control. This question comes after visiting Shaanxi province where Yulin is. And here I saw the strides that were made in afforestation and reforestation through a program such as aerial seeding. Yulin is an area that was once a desert and there are so many trees that have been planted now. And I want to know in what ways can China and Namibia work together in terms of afforestation because Namibia has vast land and also like a desert area, very dry area. But it's just land that is not being put to use. And how can China and Namibia work together in terms of afforestation or how can Namibia learn from China for it to start its own afforestation and reforestation processes? And then the other question. We keep talking about how Namibian and Chinese nationals should always abide by each other’s laws. And I want to find out what are the Namibia-China relationships in terms of the extradition of prisoners. Do the two countries have an extradition treaty? If so, how do the two countries handle the extradition? And how do the two countries cooperate on matters of international law enforcement such as combating international crimes and corruption? Thank you.

A: I will answer your second question first. We do have a bilateral extradition treaty between China and Namibia. But I don't remember whether there's any such case. Typically, to implement extradition treaty, of course it depends on whether we have such criminals fleeing to the other country. For the exchange of prisoners, some countries have signed such agreement. For instance, we already signed such agreements with some countries. If a Chinese national commits a crime and is convicted here, and if there's such an agreement between the two governments, this criminal can go back to China to serve his sentence. And vice versa, if a Namibian commits a crime in China and is convicted, he can be sent back to Namibia to serve his sentence. But currently, we don't have such an arrangement.

Afforestation is very important for any country. And in China, the Chinese government has attached great importance to that. And our top leader President Xi has a very famous saying. He said that a green mountain is itself a gold mountain. So he used that analogy to highlight the importance of afforestation and vegetation. Because in China, although we have large land size as a country, we also have a lot of desert areas and also a big piece of our territory is poorly afforested due to natural conditions and some historic misconduct. China is very rich in forest resources and boasts a very rich ecosystem with a lot of forests and plant varieties, but a lot of forests were gone as a result of human activities. So since the establishment of New China, especially in the last 40 years, the government has consistently introduced tree planting programs. Sometimes we use airplanes to spread the tree seeds in those arid places. And the Chinese Government has established a so-called Tree Planting Day. It's established by the government officially. And on that day, government officials are mobilized to plant trees. And our top leadership takes the lead. They go to the suburban areas, mountains and hills where there have few trees. And they plant trees there. So I think it's very important for the government to introduce special programs. It cannot be done in a short period of time. But if you continue to do that, in many years, you will see the results. So that is why you said you were impressed with the afforestation in China. And of course, you also need to provide financial support.

My personal observation is that actually in the northern part of Namibia, there used to be forests. So that means, although some of the forests are gone, since they were there before, the natural conditions should be suitable if you want to undertake a tree planting program there. Recently I traveled to President Pohamba's village. I paid a visit to pay my respect to President Pohamba at his village. When we traveled there, we of course bypass Tsumeb, Ondangwa and then to Ohangwena. So on the way back, we should also follow the same route, right? But according to the advice of somebody, actually there's a shorter route. Maybe my driver misunderstood that. Actually, it turned out that the shorter route is at least 200 kilometers longer. So actually, my driver drove all the way from that part eastward. And that's a very nice road. It's parallel to your border with Angola and goes all the way to Rundu. And then we turned to the road to Tsumeb somewhere near Rundu, I think. So I comforted my driver and told him, although it took an extra 200 kilometers, it gave me a special experience of that part of Namibia. And I was deeply impressed with the trees on both sides of the road. I came to see a lot of new kinds of trees I hadn’t seen before.  Anyway, if the Namibian side wishes to cooperate with the Chinese side on afforestation or just wants us to share some experience, we would be more than happy to do that.