On May 1, Roya TV aired an exclusive interview with H.E. Chen Chuandong, the Chinese Ambassador to Jordan.  The interview transcript is as follows:

Host: This is Roya News. Today we are having an interview with his excellency Chen Chuandong, China’s ambassador to Jordan. Mr. Ambassador, thank you for joining us.

Amb. Chen: It’s good to have you here, Ahmad, and a great pleasure talking to Roya again.

Host: First of all, the United States is imposing waves after waves of tariffs, although it has stopped in the last week. So what is China doing to react to these measures, and what’s the effect of these measures on the Chinese economy?

Amb. Chen: The United States, under the so-called “reciprocal tariffs”, has levied tariffs on almost all countries and nations in the world. And of course, for China, it's absurdly high tariffs, round after round. We have made our position very clear on a number of occasions. We believe that the United States is using the tariff as a weapon and is attacking all countries indiscriminately. This is a serious violation of WTO rules, and it's also an attack on the legitimate interests of all countries and an attack on the international economic trade order. It is a typical act of unilateralism, trade protectionism, and economic bullying. It is also against the basic laws of economics and market principles. We believe that this should be opposed by all countries in the world.

And for China, what have we done? Of course, we are very much against this act, and we have taken legitimate and forceful countermeasures. Sometimes, if you try to reason with somebody and it doesn't work, you have to use the language that they understand.

Why has China stood up against the US bullying? Of course we are protecting our own interests. But at the same time, we're also trying to safeguard international rules, trying to safeguard the multilateral trading system. We want to avoid the situation where we go back to the age of the international order or world order ruled by the laws of the jungles. We think that there could be no winners in either trade war or tariff war. We don't want to fight, but we're not afraid of fighting. If we have to fight, we'll fight till the end. At the same time, as I said, the international community should come together to oppose such unilateral action and bullying.

Other than our countermeasures against the United States, we have done two things. Number one, boost the domestic demand, consumption. Number two, open wider to the outside world.

A few days ago, we had a meeting of China's State Council, which is the cabinet of China. The meeting emphasized the importance of boosting consumption and domestic demand in China, upgrading our industries, also encouraging companies to keep the jobs, not to lay off people. At the same time, make more investments in vocational training and try to stabilize our foreign trade and investment. For example, we're supporting our exporting companies to sell their products in China. We are also helping foreign investors to make new investments in China. There are a number of new areas for consumption, in the service sector, for example, caring for the elderly, childbirth support, tourism. The government also rolled out a very robust program to support consumption, giving subsidies to consumer goods. So my daughter got a brand-new Huawei phone using the subsidies from the government. We're also helping, as I said, the Chinese exporting companies to sell their products in China, not only the government, but also the Chinese supermarkets, they are welcoming these products into the market.

At the same time, despite the unilateral action by the United States, we are still very firmly committed to opening up to the outside world so that we can share our benefits together. Not long ago, you probably noticed that my president was on a visit to Malaysia, Vietnam, and Cambodia, our neighboring countries. During this visit, we have reached agreements on a few hundred cooperation projects. Last year we eliminated all restrictions on investment in China's manufacturing sector. So foreign companies enjoy the same status as Chinese companies. The Canton Fair is ongoing. Many of our Jordan friends are there. We hope that through our cooperation, especially with the partners under the Belt and Road Initiative, we’ll be able to counter unilateralism through multilateralism and win-win cooperation.

So, in a nutshell, we hope that we will be able to bring stability to this very unpredictable world.

Host: Regarding multilateralism, China’s economy is very dependent on global trade. What do you think these tariffs have a long-term impact on the Chinese economy? What can we expect? Is the Chinese economy resilient enough to withstand these tariff measures and keep going with the US if they want to further escalate anymore?

Amb. Chen: Very good question. You know, China is the second biggest economy in the world, also we’re the world’s second biggest consumer market. Over the years, we have been trying to improve our industrial structure and model of economic development. Our dependence on foreign trade has dropped considerably over the years. Of course, there will be a short-term impact on Chinese export, but our export to the United States only accounts for 14.7% of all China's export.

And the American tariffs are not something new to China. In 2017, the Americans launched the first round of trade war against China. They raised the tariffs. What have we done? We have tried to diversify our markets. We have expanded our trade with emerging markets, especially with the Belt and Road Initiative (partner) countries. We're the biggest trading partner for almost 150 countries and regions in the world. Our trade with countries under the BRI Initiative accounts for 51% of all our trade. Last December, we gave zero-tariff treatment to all LDCs, the least developed countries around the world, covering 100% of tariff lines. And China actually is the first major economy that has done so.

We believe that we also have a huge domestic market, as I mentioned, we're boosting our domestic demand, and we're able to resist or deal with this shock from external challenges.

So, through the years, as I said, we are trying to boost our consumption. So we have a more balanced development of investment, trade, and consumption. We believe that we have much stronger drivers for economic growth in China. But we believe that all this can point to our confidence that we're able to give more stability to a very unstable world. So we're confident about the future. This will also encourage us to be more self-reliant and improve our supply chain.

Host: China filed a case in the World Trade Organization against these measures and against these tariffs. What does China expect from this case? And is it considered an aggressive move to counteract? Or is it perhaps just a legal issue and trying to make it work at the WTO?

Amb. Chen: Unlike some other countries, China is observing the WTO rules. According to the WTO rules, we have filed a lawsuit at the WTO. And the US has accepted to have consultation under the WTO dispute settlement mechanism. We hope it will work. So we'll pursue our case according to the rules. And we believe that people will come to the right conclusion out of this.

Host: Recently, there have been reports that indicate no high-level talks between China and the US, only perhaps on the lower or mid level. There has been basically no breakthrough in these talks or negotiations. There were some hints from the White House. For example, they spoke this week about a possible deal with China. What is China doing to break this deadlock in the negotiations?

Amb. Chen: We are open to consultation with the Americans to talk about our trade dispute, but there are principles that we have to observe for dialogues, and there are red lines. Threatening, coercion, and blackmailing is not the right way to deal with China. It has never been the right way to do so. It is the Americans who launched this tariff war against China and against other countries. We have a saying in China, those who tie the bell on the neck of a tiger have to untie it. So we believe that if the Americans are sincere to talk about how to resolve these problems, they should try to act in a different way, not in this wrong way, and try to create atmosphere for our dialogue. You probably have heard from the American officials saying there have been contacts between China and the US. This is fake news. We're not talking to them until they show respect and show their sincerity to talk with us. As I said, sometimes you have to use the language they understand to talk to them.

Eventually, as the two leading economies in the world, China and the US have to get along. It's not only in the interest of the two countries, but also for the whole world, including Jordan. But we have been very clear. We don't want to fight. But if you want to fight, we'll fight till the end. If you want to talk, the door is open. But stop blackmailing, stop using this so-called maximum pressure, and you have to talk to us in an equal and respectful manner, so we can find a win-win solution to the problems. So that's our position. It is very clear.

Host: This news is coming from American media that there are possible negotiations. Do you think maybe this is a weakness from the American side?

Amb. Chen: I think the Americans have to answer this question. But for me, what I see is growing opposition from countries, including China and others, to oppose this unitary action. And also, the market has reacted to this abusive behavior of the Americans. I hope that they can draw lessons and reverse their course.

Host: Could these measures perhaps lead China to open more to other regions, other countries, perhaps more untapped markets or markets that are still small, let's say, relatively small, perhaps in regions like the Middle East, or in this case, in Jordan for example?

Amb. Chen: Despite the free trade agreement with the Americans, Jordan is getting 20% tariffs. This is unreasonable and unfair. We also have Chinese businesses who have investment here, especially in the garment sector. They're also victims of the additional tariffs. And they are major exporters of Jordanian products to the United States. I also understand some companies are buying materials from China, process and then export them to the US. These companies are also affected.

In China's philosophy, we also believe that if there are challenges, there are also opportunities. So we believe that because China and Jordan and countries in the region have always enjoyed mutual respect, we have always had a very profound friendship among our peoples. And because of the economic development stages, and industrial policies in our countries, we also have a very broad prospect for future cooperation. Our economies are highly complementary. And we have enjoyed steady and robust economic trade relations with Jordan, resulting in benefit for our two peoples. And also, our trade relations have been very resilient. If you look at COVID, our trade dipped for one year, and then it shot up again after COVID, even during COVID.

So I believe that with the strategic partnership of our two countries, with the visionary guidance of our leaders, and with the active participation of business from both sides, we have a lot of opportunities. As I said earlier, we are also trying to diversify our market. At the same time, we also welcome Jordanian products in the Chinese markets. I think maybe we can draw lessons from this episode, so that we can build a more resilient supply chain, and we will make our economies more resilient through this.

Host: Mr. Ambassador, could these customs duties posed by the US be seen as some sort of revenge against China? As China’s economy is constantly expanding and booming, it could possibly overtake the US, in some sectors already.

Amb. Chen: Very good question. I wouldn't characterize it as revenge. Because if you talk about revenge, that means you were hurt by someone or some country. But China has not been hurting the United States. Relations, especially trade relations between the two countries, are mutually beneficial. We're not getting money from the US for nothing. We sell products to the US. It’s trade. It's not like charity giving money.

Some people say it’s the United States that helps China grow. Well of course, we benefit from open free trade, we benefit from globalization. But I think what is most important for China's growth is that Chinese people work so hard. We work very hard, we have a vision from our leaders, we have a steady course for development, we have strategies and we stick to the strategies. So that's why China has been growing. It's not because of charity from a certain country. So we believe that it is wrong to look at China in a way that China is to overtake the US, because for us, our purpose is very simple, we want to give better lives for our children. We are not taking over the US as a “world cop” or the so-called leader that would dictate every country.

Throughout our history, we don’t have such DNA. If you look at China, many Jordanian friends said we understand China, China has the Great Wall. Why was the Great Wall built? It was used to defend against aggression from the tribes in the north. So it’s not in our DNA to have occupation or colonialism against other countries. We have been a trading nation throughout our history. Jordan and Petra, I'm going to Petra probably in a few weeks, Petra was a key link of the ancient Silk Road, trade between China and Europe, and also the Middle East. I think that the American people have to understand that these two great countries have to live in peace and harmony, not only in the benefit of the two countries but also of the world, because if the two big countries fight, all the other countries will suffer. We don't want to have that situation.

Host: The measures China is taking to safeguard its economy, in your first answer, you talked about boosting the local economy and concentrating more on the inside. Is that considered a closing, or is it just a protective?

Amb. Chen: No, not at all. Our strategy is, we call it double circulation, internal circulation, and also external circulation. These two kinds of circulation complement each other. By boosting the internal circulation, what we mean is that we want to have a unified market. In China, unfortunately, we still have local protectionism in some cases, and some of our markets are fragmented. So what we're trying to do is that we’ll have a stronger and unified market, so all the forces for production, all these factors will be utilized in the best way. At the same time, we believe that by opening up, we can build our economy stronger. If you look at China's trajectory, our growth has been coupled with our opening up to the world. In China, when we say reforms, we always say reforms and opening up to the world. So that goes hand in hand. So we're not closing the country, but rather we're opening wider to the world.

Host: Mr. Ambassador, thank you very much for your time. We appreciate it.

Amb. Chen: It's a great pleasure talking to you and to have you here at the embassy.